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Posts Tagged ‘fiberglass pools’
Artistic Pools Customer Testimonials
Thursday, August 25th, 2011Artistic Fiberglass Pools Company Profile
Monday, May 2nd, 2011
To date I have given recognition to Pool Manufacturers, Tile companies, and other major players within our business. The time has come for the most important recognition of all; the team that makes Artistic Pools who we are. Below you will find a complete company profile listing duties performed by our team along with contact information for those who work within our organization. Without these most important team members our company would not be who we are today and that is one of the most well respected and most recognizable Fiberglass Pool Distributors and Dealers on the East Coast.
Mark Peditto: President and Co-Founder of Artistic Pools Corp
Mark Peditto is a graduate of Bloomsburg University where he graduated with a degree in education and a minor in Business. Mark spent many years in the concrete business before turning his interests into fiberglass swimming pools back in 2001. Since then Artistic Pools has become one of the most decorated fiberglass pool distributors and Installers on the east Coast. I would have to Say my biggest accomplishments in life is My wonderful Family Jenea, Gianna and Tyler.
Duties: Mark Handles Website Development, Our Swimming Pool Depot, Pool deliveries, Service and all scheduling for pool installs. Mark is always available through email and cell phone for questions pertaining to all of the above.
Contact Info: Cell 609-352-7069 email: mark@artisticpools.us
Jenea Peditto: Permitting and General information
Jenea Peditto is a graduate of Burlington County College. Pictured above is my wonderful family Jenea, Gianna and Tyler. This is the main reason I go to work everyday. Jenea is a stay at home mom now taking care of our everyday operations of pulling permits and to answer any general questions pertaining to your pool permit process. We work very well together to make sure our swimming pool projects run smoothly.
Duties: Pool permitting, General Questioning, Pool setback info and TWP info.
Contact Info: 856-755-1642 Email: jenea@artisticpools.us
Mike Neri: Vice President and Co-Founder of Artistic Pools Corp
Mike Neri who is the Vice President and my Partner in Business. Mike brings a wealth of knowledge and business skills to our company. Mike is a hands on Owner unlike other pool companies. Mike is present on every Job. Mike has been Stamping concrete for over 20 years now and is one of the pioneers here in New Jersey being one of the first to endeavor into the Stamped Concrete Industry back in 1990. I have to Say most partnerships in business fail for some reason or another. Our partnership started as a friendship back in the early 90’s and has developed into a well respected business partnership and has continued to prosper due to like minded goals and aspirations. He is one of the hardest workers I know and treats every pool build as if it was his own.
Duties: Pool Installation, Concrete Mason, 3d Pool Designer, Runs the construction Dept.
Contact Info: 609-685-0616 mike@artisticpools.us
John Cutillo: Vice President of Sales and Marketing
John Cutillo is my lifelong best friend and current Sales and Marketing Consultant at Artistic Pools. John brings a wealth of knowledge and people skills to the table. John has a degree in Marketing from Temple University. John is an all around type of Guy. Not only will john sell you a swimming pool and concrete decking but chances are you will see him in your backyard either on the pool crew with Mike or on the Stamped Concrete crew or Both. He is not just interested in making a sale he makes sure you get exactly what you paid for and that is important in this industry. He is one of the most organized, clean freak of a person I know other than myself and that my friend makes for a clean Job.
Duties: Sales and Marketing,
Contact Info: 609-238-4072 john@artisticpools.us
Rick Thurman: Depot Manager
Rick Thurman is the man who makes our pool depot Run. Rick has been with Artistic Pools for nearly 7 years now and has been one of our most dependable team members since joining our team back in 2004. Rick brings a wealth of knowledge to our Crew being a previous Tile installer and Crane operator in his earlier Years. Rick runs a crew of three guys including his Son Ricky who aids in tiling and loading of all our pools. They both are responsible for getting our pools built prior to the installation. They install the skimmers, Main Drains, Returns and Lights prior to the pools leaving our depot yard. Ricky is an avid Phillies Fan who listens to just about every phillies game on the radio throughout the Season. He is our Mr. Dependable when needing things to be done on a hunch. We really value his loyalty and Dedication to our company.
Duties: Tiling of Pools, Off loading and Loading of Pools, Crane Operator, and general yard maintenance
Rick Thurman Jr: Pool Depot operator
Ricky Thurman Jr son of Rick Sr works diligently with his father Ricky to make sure all of our pools are cleaned, Tiled, Built and ready for install. Ricky has been with our company for many years as well and brings a wealth of knowledge to our company in the area of Tile installation and pool building mechanics. Ricky works hand in hand with his father to ensure our pools are problem free and ready for delivery.
Mike Sr. Concrete Foreman
Mike Sr who is Mike the owners Dad is responsible for setting all the concrete forms for all our concrete Jobs and is responsible for overseeing the dig for our pool projects. Mike Sr is in the hole directing the Dig while using a transit to make sure all our pools are level before water and back filling begin.
Duties: Concrete Foreman, pool crew
Frank Neri “Unc”: CDL Driver
Frank Neri who we all call UNC is Mike the owners uncle. Uncle Frank is our CDL tri axle dump truck driver who is responsible for hauling all of our dirt away to dump sites and bringing loads of stone to our swimming pool projects. UNC has been part of our company for over 10 years now and has been a real team player throughout his career with Artistic Pools Corp. Uncle Frank is nearing 70 years old but works like a 40 year old on a mission. We really value his dedication and support he has provided throughout the years.
Duties: Class A CDL driver
Robert Moore: Class A CDL Driver
Robert Moore has been an integral part of our company for many years as well. Robert is responsible for delivering our swimming pools to a dealer base spreading from Virginia as far up as Maine. Robert handles getting the escorts for all of our pool depot deliveries. Robert also is directly involved in our yard crew helping Rick Sr and rick Jr in getting our pools unloaded, cleaned and ready for delivery. He has been the backbone of our distribution business for many years and is very dependable and very intelligent when it comes to DOT issues and trucking in General. He has been a great asset to our company and we look forward to a bright future ahead in the distribution portion of our company.
Duties: Pool Distribution, Yard Maintenance, Pool loading, Hauling Permits, and DOT compliance
Contact Info: 609-280-0538
Joe Peditto Sr and Joey Peditto Jr: Pool installers, Builders, Concrete Masons, Outdoor Kitchens, Paver Installers
As you can see Joe and Joey share the same Last name as Mark yes me the owner. I’m sure you have noticed many throughout this post sharing the same last names. We pride ourselves as mostly a family run, friend driven business. My brother Joe is what we like to call a jack of all trades. He has been building homes now for nearly three decades. Joe and Joey are directly responsible for building pool houses, Gazebos, outdoor Kitchens, Sun rooms, Pavers, and just about any outdoor recreation project you can think of. Joe’s talents are incredible and I must say I envy his knowledge in the building industry. My nephew Joey is quickly following in his fathers footsteps and we look forward to him stepping into our pool installation crew in years to come.
Duties: Anything and everything related to outdoor recreation projects
Contact: 856-630-9719 pedittoj@yahoo.com
Kevin Thurman: Plumber, Tile Installer, Pool crew Manager, Service Technician
Kevin Thurman has been with Artistic Pools since the very beginning. Kevin is another what I like to call Jack of all trades. He is responsible for Plumbing all of our pools. He works in conjunction with our swimming pool crew. Kevin is a Master Plumber. He sets all of our pool equipment up. He is responsible for building the Pump, Filter, Salt Water System, Heaters, Led Lighting and making sure everything is pressure tested prior to filling the pool with water. Kevin Also runs our Service department. He is one of the guys you will see opening or Closing your swimming pool. Kevin Also has been tiling our pools for nearly a decade. He has hands of steel and has been one of our primary go to guys in dealing with everyday tasks and pool building. He has been a great friend and a wonderful worker throughout his many years with our company.
Duties: Tile Installer, Pool Plumber, pool crew Manager, and service Technician
Contact Info: 609-864-5714 kevin@artisticpools.us
Richard King: The King Company Electrician
Richard King has been an electrician now for nearly 60 years. Richard King and his Son Todd King has been our electrician since our beginnings. They are responsible for wiring all of our swimming pools. They have been extremely professional and their work speaks for itself. They are very knowledgeable in swimming pool chemistry as well as all the additional options associated with our swimming pool packages such as Salt water Systems, Led Lighting, Elect heat Pumps, Water Features, and all other outdoor projects pertaining to their industry. We are the only swimming pool company that The King company works for therefore providing immediate availability to our swimming pool customers. We are so lucky to have such a great team of electricians working for us.
Duties: Electrician
Contact: Richard King 848-459-5929
Adding Custom Waterfalls to your project
Monday, November 15th, 2010
Adding Custom waterfalls to any fiberglass pool project will greatly enhance the overall aesthetics of the project. With this being said deciding on a waterfall at the time of purchase does’nt necessarily have to be the case. During the time of installation our crew can install the valves at the pump and filter location needed to direct the pool water to the waterfall or future water feature. As long as the system is set up for a future waterfall there is no need to do it right away. If you are sticking to a budget like most of us a waterfall at the time of purchase might not be feasable, however a year or two down the road this can all happen if planned ahead accordingly. There are many different varieties of water features available in todays market but today I will focus on Moss Rock waterfalls with either one, Two or three spouts. I will also give a ball park price on what each of these water features run approximately. Keep in mind pricing can vary according to job access and location.
Here you will see a 3 tier moss rock water feature with access lighting. This is the most common if you have enough room on the side of the pool to accomodate a 10′ waterfall feature. Keep in mind a waterfall can be placed just about anywhere on your new fiberglass pool. We assist all of our customers in determining the best overall spot of the waterfall with you. There is a lot you can do with the waterfall feature such as adding low voltage lighting, decorative plants behind the feature and many other design features that are unlimited when adding custom Waterfalls.
Here you see a very nice Two tier Moss Rock Waterfall with landscaping behind the water feature to enhance the overall look of the project. All the rocks get mortared together on site to create a solid structure. If you have any questions regarding any of our water features please contact our Sales team to discuss the endless possibilities pertaining to water features and waterfall projects.
Here is our top five reasons to purchase a waterfall on your new Project.
1. Waterfalls provide tranquil sounds and improves your overall mood.
2. They provide aesthetic value to your project.
3. Provides some sort of privacy when in the pool.
4. Provides depth and height to a portion of your project.
5. provides a place to add exotic landscaping and become the focal point of your project.
Here is a basic Guideline of pricing associated with a waterfall project. Keep in mind these prices do not include landscape lighting and plantings around the waterfall. Additional items will be discussed at the time of the sale.
6′ Moss rock waterfall with 1 water spout: 3,800.00
8′ Moss rock waterfall with 2 water spouts: 5,250.00
10′ Moss rock waterfall with 2-3 water spouts: 7,500.00
What is my Fiberglass Pool Project going to Cost
Tuesday, October 19th, 2010
How much is this project going to cost
One of the most common questions asked in the swimming pool business is “how much is this project going to cost me”. I know this is a very important question to ask upfront but lets not forget Quality and workmanship when doing so. Pricing on fiberglass pool project depends on numerous factors. Transportation is a huge factor that has to be taken into account. Type of fiberglass pool, meaning which manufacturer have you decided to purchase from. Material costs are also a huge factor. For example when working in Pennsylvania near rock quarries my cost of stone is around 10.00 a ton. When we head north into New York Stone can range between 29.00 and 52.00 a ton. With this being said I would like to give you the customer an idea of costs associated with a fiberglass pool project from Artistic Pools Corp. Again this pricing is a guide, a general rule of thumb after surveying numerous pool companies related to pool cost. Pricing for fiberglass pools in the North tend to be slightly higher due to transportation costs out of Florida, Texas and Virginia.
Artistic Pools is owner operated offering complete packages with no Sub contractors. Our business is successful because we care about the end result. Remember the old saying you get what you pay for. This is so true in the swimming pool Business. Would you rather pay a company who uses all subs to complete your fantasy pool. I highly doubt it. Remember subs are paid by the owner of the company. There is no better felling than utilizing a company that is owner operated. Mike Neri my partner is on every job from start to finish. Please keep this in mind when comparing apples to apples. So what is this project going to cost our family, and what upgrades should we look into purchasing along with our dream pool? The pricing below is based on a complete project. So before I get into what the pool is going to cost along with any additional options you may choose, let me describe what Artistic describes as complete. Basic package includes: excavation, Dirt removal from the site, Set pool, Provide 3/8 gravel backfill, Plumbing of Pool, Pump, filter, chlorinator, handrail, Ladder, start-up chemicals, maintenance package, 3′ of concrete, Cantilever Coping, electrical run up to 50 ft ( 10.00 per ft over 50′), and all permit work is done by my beautiful wife Jenea. This is a complete pool up and running. Now we can get into the cost’s associated with a fiberglass pool. Remember you get what you pay for and we at Artistic Pools uses only the finest Manufacturers in the world today; Leisure Pools, San Juan Pools and Crystal Palace Pools.
What’s my cost: A general rule of thumb is that a Fiberglass Pool project runs 1,000 per ft. This can vary according to Manufacturer, pool inventory and availability of materials and any specials that are running on pools in inventory. Here is a few examples of how this theory of 1,000 per foot works out. The only area this theory is a little out of wack is the 40′ pools. Our current pricing is around 37-38 thousand. But again this is a general rule of thumb throughout the industry.
10 by 20 fiberglass pool complete 20,000
12 by 24 fiberglass pool complete 24,000
13 by 28 fiberglass pool complete 28,000
14 by 30 fiberglass pool complete 30,000
15 by 34 fiberglass pool complete 34,000
16 by 40 fiberglass pool complete 40,000
OK now that you have an idea of what your pool up and running is going to cost what about all the ugrades? Ninety percent of the time our customers purchase 8 major upgrades on their fiberglass pool projects. These are:
1. Pool tile (between 875 and 2500 for basic pool tile)
2. Electric Heat Pump (between 3,750 and 4,900 installed depending on size)
3. Led Lighting (between 900 and 1900 depending on how many lights)
4. SVRS variable speed pump (900 installed)
5. Auto Pool cleaner (875 tiger shark)
6. Salt Generator ( 1500 average)
7. Winter Safety Cover ( between 1,275 and 2,300 depending on size)
8. Stamped Concrete ( 9.00-11.50 sq/ft depending on location)
Artistic Pools offers additional options other than those listed above. We offer slides, diving boards, retaining Walls, fencing, water features, out door Kitchens and many other outdoor living space projects. We take 0 down and have your pool installed before any payment is due to Artistic. I hope this Blog post gave you the consumer a basis of what you should expect when purchasing a fiberglass swimming pool. I will go into the benefits of purchasing a pool from someone you can trust in a later blog post.
Manufacturing Materials (Yesterday and Today)
Saturday, March 6th, 2010
Yesterday and Today The simple fact is that the materials and methods used to build boats in 1965 remain good enough to continue to be used today. 1965 technology (if you can call it that) is perfectly suited to build good quality boats to this day. In fact, most boats are still made with the same basic materials, although the advertising has fooled you into believing otherwise. The primary difference is that they are USING LESS OF IT, and substituting cheaper materials for more expensive solid laminates. Speaking of solid laminates, that’s what I mean by 1965 technology.
When it comes to the use of core materials, they are employed not, as was originally intended, to stiffen up flat structures such as decks, but to replace more costly material with less costly material. In essence, where there used to be solid laminate, the space is now filled with air, because air is what most cores are all about. It would be one thing if these cores were serving to make structures stronger. Instead, they are being used as an excuse to eliminate frames, to make unsupported spans of flat surfaces even larger. It costs money to add frames: use a core and eliminate the frames. In most cases what we end up with is not a structure that is stronger, but weaker.
Typical examples of this are hull sides and decks. The average entry level cruiser has a cored foredeck with virtually no frames. Jump on it and it’s like a trampoline. No problem, except when you do jump on it, and that deck flexes, what is happening is that the core is separating from the outer laminates. A cored structure is designed not to bend, like a bridge. When you do bend it, bad things happen, like the bridge or deck starts to fall down. Much the same thing is going on with hull sides. Most small boats don’t use foam cores, but products like CoreMat, a material that sort of looks like that absorbent material you find at the bottom of meat packaging. It’s a fibrous material with millions of little holes or perforations through it. It would be great stuff except for a couple of things.
First, it absorbs water like a sponge. Small boats never had much of a blistering problem until products like this came along. Now they blister just like Taiwan boats that are loaded with chopped strand mat and blister like a banshee. Secondly, very thin cores like these do not create a structural truss like a real core does. Cores increase strength by separating the distance of the load between the inner and outer skins. Think of the skins as beams, and the core as columns. The effect is exactly the same as a roof truss. But not when you use a thin sheet of this stuff. All it does is replace strong material with weaker material.
Take a typical cruiser, use a core like this in the house sides and then paint it black. Set it out in the Florida or Texas or Alabama sun for a few years and watch what happens. Ooooh! Weird! It buckles and cracks. Want to know why? Or do you want to know why the builder didn’t know what was going to happen? Or did he care? Oh, no, he simply didn’t know because he doesn’t employ any composite engineers. The material salesmen designed the thing for him, so he’s happy as a clam thinking he saved some money and can now tout “high tech.” What happened, of course, is called heat distortion. Every place a laminate is held rigid, like around a window frame with screws through it, the material expands but is restrained by frame and fasteners. And so it does the only thing it can do, it buckles and cracks.
I don’t hesitate for a moment in saying no. Not with any kind of material. The risk is too high that something will go wrong, mistakes either by the builder, the owners of the boat, or someone working on it. We all know that it’s hard enough to keep the superstructure of the boat from leaking, but to keep water out of a core below the water line may nigh well be impossible. Fiberglass is known to be water absorbent enough as it is without adding more risk to the mix. To do it right requires a very high degree of care which can ultimately be compromised by something as seemingly innocent as running a screw through the laminate somewhere in the bilge. it’s just too easy to make a mistake.Should Hulls Be Cored Below Waterline?
The other problem with coring a bottom has to do with the inability to calculate and estimate stress on complex shapes. It’s easy enough to calculate stress on a flat panel, but change the contours of that panel, introduce the factors imposed by human error, and any benefit that might have been obtained by coring the bottom is long lost. The risk of error multiplies exponentially, far beyond anything that is suitable for high production building. The smaller the boat, the more true this is due to the scale and economic factors. It’s one thing to core a 110 footer that costs 8 million, something else again for a boat that sells for $100k or so. The fact that the economic viability is not there for small boats translates as the builder cutting corners to turn a profit with a process he shouldn’t be using.
All of which means that you run a big risk in buying a cored hull when you could easily avoid that risk by buying one that’s not. Could the reasoning be more simple than this?
Fiberglass pools as well as Boats are not all created Equal
Friday, March 5th, 2010Are They Fiberglass Boats Anymore?
by David Pascoe
Not long ago I was the recipient of a rather distressing revelation.
It happened when I was asked by a client to attend an auction of storm damaged boats here in Fort Lauderdale. There were two minor hurricanes and one tropical storm in Florida last year, but other than to trees, I wasn’t aware of much damage having occurred. In fact, during one of the hurricanes, I was out there with a video camera filming what was going on at several marinas. Not much, except for a few people that did nothing to prepare. Mostly it was these people’s boats that ended up in the auction.
Arriving at the auction site, a large open field filled with damaged boats, numerous damaged small boats immediately caught my interest. In part, this was due to so many of them appearing as though they’d been caught in a monster storm like Andrew, instead of a bottom of category one storms with winds barely over hurricane strength, 74 mph. A salient point here is that we have no large, open expanses of water. Just canals and rivers. So, with a storm surge of only 18 inches at high tide, I was scratching my head about why so much damage.
Here’s a sampling of the various materials that were found within the broken up hull sides.
Here’s fine illustration of what is meant by the laminate being comprised of an extremely small amount of fiberglass reinforcement. The only glass you see here is a single layer of Roving on the inside of the hull, with the exception of a very, very thin layer of mat against the gel coat. Otherwise, the major part of this Sea Ray hull is comprised of some kind of very porous material. Notice how huge chunks have broken away. This would never happen with fiberglass laminate.
Secondly, so many of these boats had degrees of damage that I hadn’t seen before, even from major storms, yet alone minor storms. Much of the damage that I observed seemed to have occurred under different parameters. By that I mean that, in order for a fiberglass hull to become completely broken up, usually a great deal of prolonged bashing and battering against other hard objects is required. Usually a busted up hull will display extremely heavy battering as revealed by heavy gouging and many impact points on the hull. What was startling about these boats were that so many of them were busted up without revealing heavy battering.
Or, to put it another way, these boats got broken up by only a few heavy impacts, and not hours worth of sustained battering. In several of my articles on the subject of construction, I have a photo of a 42 Bertram that broke loose during Opal (1995, Florida panhandle) and was badly battered against pilings and other objects for many hours. The hull laminates did not fail, but obviously had sustained a horrendous beating. I used those photos as a good example of just how strong an ordinary fiberglass laminate can be.
What was so eye-catching about these boats is that many of the broken up pieces did not show any significant degree of heavy battering. The analogy here looked more like hitting a glass bottle with a hammer — it only takes one swing to break it.
Thirdly, what next caught my attention, and what I found truly distressing, was that these damaged boats revealed what they were made of. Simply put, whatever these materials are, I didn’t recognize many of them. And, I suspect that in looking over these photos, you won’t either.
Of course some would say, “Hey, you’re a surveyor. You’re supposed to know these things.” Right. But we don’t stand there watching thousands of boats being built, and neither do we (unless we’re willing to be mislead) take the builder’s word for it. The observation of busted up hulls, as we have here, is how we find out. Unfortunately, we don’t often get the opportunity to do that.
We talk a lot about core materials on this site because coring things like hulls and decks has, over the years, proved troublesome. There have been too many problems with materials like foam, especially delaminations and incomplete bonding of the outer skins.
But now we have something new entering the scene, something they call “advanced composites.” A composite refers basically to two or more materials that are bonded together. If you glued a piece of wood and plastic together, technically that would be a composite. A balsa cored deck is also a composite, though most of us would just as soon call it cored construction because we know what that means. When the marketing people say “advanced composites,” well, we don’t know what that means since it could be anything, which, judging by what I saw and the photos displayed here, it does mean just about anything.
Here we see a big chunk of hull side that is quite simply gone missing. Notice that the puncture hole is at the bottom of the photo. This shot gives an excellent indication of the strength properties of this “advanced composite.”
This photo further illustrates the strength of the bond between this outer skin, and the putty core. Notice that I easily hold it away with my fingers. After taking the photo, I took hold of that edge and just tore the entire outer skin of this boat off, comprising four feet of undamaged area. Notice how easily this material cracks.
The first question to cross my mind was, “Can these fairly be called fiberglass boats any more?” What we see here are hulls made with increasingly less and less fiberglass, and more and more of something else. Some of these boats were stunning in the limited amout of structural fibers used.
One good example is a Sea Ray where the hull side had ONE layer of woven roving, two thin layers of chopped strand mat, and all the rest of the laminate was some kind of brittle putty.
| This reason is why Artistic Pools chooses only the finest Manufacturers in the industry today. |
In another boat, only two layers of mat were separated by an expanse of putty. No STRUCTURAL fiber at all, just very weak mat. I had no doubt that if one swung a carpenter’s hammer at the side of this hull, the hammer would go right through.
What do I mean by putty? Well, the material looks just like fairing material (some call it bondo, if only because it resembles that automotive repair material). I’ve never seen this before, though the Sea Ray in question goes back to the early 1990’s. Plenty of this material was exposed. Taking pieces in my hands, I could easy crumble the stuff between my fingers. It’s not foam, it’s not Coremat, and it was found in colors of gray, pink and tan, each in different boats.
What we see here really begs the question, for glass fibers make up only a small percentage of the total laminate thickness, which, as you can see, is pitifully thin to begin with. How about a hull side on a 27 footer that is 3/16″ thick, with 2/16″ of it being this putty material? That means there was only 1/8″ of glass that included the gel coat. Could this leave any doubt about why so many of these small boats got busted to pieces in a minor storm, in a place where there was almost no storm surge? Not in my mind, anyway.
Yet another notable factor was the massive disbonding of the pitiful amounts of glass from the putty — or call it a core if you’re so inclined. Check out the photo below where I grabbed a piece of the outer skin and tore the whole thing off with minimal effort. In this case, the outer skin consisted of two layers of mat (I think). The bonding to the putty was nearly zero on both inner and outer plies. Notice how it breaks away on both sides of the “bond.” Notice how easily the stuff cracks and breaks out.
I’m not sure what the point of all this is. Frankly, I’m still so shocked by what I saw that I’ve yet to fully digest the significance of it. These examples were not confined to just a few boats, but covered a fairly wide range of builders. And most significantly, of the boats which were built with solid fiberglass construction, I did not find one that was busted up anywhere near like these “advanced composites.” Not one. There were some old Bayliners and Mainships (1970’s) that were badly battered, but none were broken up. A few cracks maybe, but mostly heavy gouging and battering.
If this is the state-of-the-art production boat building, it’s a rather pitiful state much of the industry has come to. I find it very hard not derisively call this stuff “the hamburger helper of boat building.” What I saw is beginning to explain some of the more common symptoms we see in boats that are starting to come apart. Things like deck joints coming apart, heavy cracking along toe rails and chines, bulkheads, stringers and frames breaking loose, window frames that won’t stay sealed, and heavy stress cracking occurring in places that it shouldn’t.
Never mind what these materials may be doing for the blistering problem. Why talk about high quality resins when most of the hull material consists of some unknown material?
What concerns me most as a surveyor though is that we have been calling these things fiberglass boats when, in fact, fiberglass may be only a minor ingredient. How can you call it a fiberglass boat when only 10-20% of the total is glass? Previously, we’d look at a hull and question whether it was just cored or not. Now it seems we have to question the entire matrix. What is it made of?
Need to see more? How about this one? Here’s the 3/16 or maybe 5/32″ laminate referred to. Where’s the beef? Imagine that this is all that’s separating you from the deep blue sea.
Notice the nature of this puncture wound. The impact simply breaks a chunk of the laminate out, then separates the silly putty from its single backing of roving. And then the cracks that radiate outward. It’s the lack of long fibers that accounts for this result.
Well, in the case of the photo below, appearances are misleading. If you look at the inside of the hull, what you will see is a surface made up of woven roving. The misleading part is that that is the ONLY layer of roving, with the remainder of it being some other stuff. If the surveyor called it a fiberglass boat in his report, he’d be wrong, and could be sued for his error. Unfortunately, short of cutting holes in the hull, he has no way of determining otherwise. Seeing that one layer of roving on the inside, I would likely make the same mistake too.
This view gives a better overall understanding of how large areas of a hull simply break out under impact. This is the platform extension of a 30 footer. Note the break out in the chine at lower left. With a strength factor like this, a person could reduce this boat to a pile of pieces with a carpenter’s hammer. Also notice that there are NO STRUCTURAL GLASS REINFORCEMENTS showing in many areas of this broken up hull.
What’s even worse is that you have to wonder if the builder did it that with the intent on misleading the observer. Roving is much stronger than mat by several magnitudes. For strength purposes on a composite, you’d put the roving on the outside, not the inside. Hence, it’s hard not to come to the conclusion that the roving on the inside is, indeed, intended to mislead.
* * * * * *
One conclusion we can certainly come to is that the strength and impact resistance of boats built with these materials is something worse than merely inadequate. In the past, it was generally true that no matter how low cost the boat, a decently laid up solid laminate hull was capable of surviving a heavy beating without the hull breaking into pieces as we see here. As near as I can tell, the boats shown here received a minor beating, and broke to pieces. How can there be any doubt of that when the major part of the laminate is nothing but putty?
It has always been the case that when a surveyor calls a boat “fiberglass,” he’s making an assumption — an article of faith based on the fact that there were no other materials being used other than standard balsa or foam cores. Now we have a new paradigm. Enter a whole host of new materials, of which no one knows anything about, but for which we are getting some pretty good indications that many of them leave a lot to be desired.
Yet all of this still begs the question of how we should refer to the hull material of these boats. I know one thing for sure: I’m going to stop calling them fiberglass reinforced plastic. For that they surely are not. I can also state with confidence that this is going to have profound implications on all aspects of boating, including owners, surveyors, insurers and, of course, the builders themselves.
Without knowing it, we have apparently entered the era of the Putty Boat.
Addendum: Fiberglass reinforced plastic. This is the full name of what, for over forty years, has been known as the fiberglass boat. It consists of a basic standard of 65% continuous glass fibers, in the form of fabrics, and 35% plastic resin. As you can see from the above photos, none of these boats meet that description. During this period of time, the fiberglass has consisted of fabrics of woven, continuous fibers. The length of some of these fibers can be as long as the boat. These fibers, much like the huge cables that hold up suspension bridges, rely upon the continuous lengths and orientation of the fibers for their strength. Today, there is a large variety of weaves available, but they are all essentially weaves of continuous fibers.
In the early years of small FRP boat building, a few companies tried making boats from chopped strands of fibers, mixed with polyester resin and blown through a gun into a mold. The length of these fibers was about 3-4 inches and were usually curled like cut hair when viewed in the mold. Very quickly we learned just how weak laminates made with short fibers are. Those “blow-molded” boats tended to break up all to soon. The chopper-gun boats soon disappeared from the scene. Today, things like shower stalls, truck fenders and the Corvette automobile body are made with chopper guns because they don’t require great strength like a boat hull. For this reason, chopped strand is not considered as a structural fiber.
That does not mean that chopped strand mat and chopper guns have disappeared from boat shops. Chopped strand mat (CSM) is still used on all boats to prevent the weave pattern of fabrics like roving from showing on the gel coat surface. A very thin layer of mat is also used between heavy fabrics to prevent concentrations of resin between the heavy fabrics. And for other uses where very high strength is not required. One of our complaints about Taiwan boats has always been that they make use of the chopper gun too much.
Yet another problem with CSM is that it wets out with resin poorly and is well known to be very porous. The use of excessive amounts of CMS and chopper gun has been directly linked with blistering that originates within the CSM, as opposed to just being under the gel coat.
What you see in the above photos is even worse, for there is far less fiber in these than in a blow molded boat. This is what accounts for the severe breakouts of large sections of the hull. Quite simply, there is no fiber reinforcement, and the single layers of roving that you see on the inside serve no better purpose than trying to put a thin sheet of steel onto a spun fiber blanket in order to make the blanket strong. The steel would impart no strength to the blanket.
Aside from that issue, to use a hard, brittle material such as we see on these boats suggests that at every point a hull side sustains an even minor impact, that putty-like stuff is going to crack. Such cracks may not show on the outside, but may remain hidden beneath the surface. In time, with repeated stress cycles, one has to wonder about the whole matrix breaking down. Not to mention such issues as water absorption and retention along with subsequent chemical changes that may occur.
Even worse, when we now look at a given boat, we can no longer take for granted what the hull material is. We simply have no way of knowing. That leaves us all in the dark. Call me a Neoluddite if you wish (the 19th century English society that opposed the industrial revolution), but my worst fears about “high tech” materials in production boat building have become a reality.
Do we really need Main Drains?
Thursday, March 4th, 2010| INDUSTRY NEWS | |
| VGB Residential Requirements Finalized | |
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The question of how the Virginia Graeme Baker act will affect residential pools has finally been answered.
The Consumer Product Safety Commission has finalized three aspects of VGB that were still up in the air: model language for potential state laws; the definition of an unblockable drain; and the definition of a commercial pool.
This puts in black and white the continually confusing issue of what VGB means for residential pools.
The law is not a mandate for all pools. Instead, it provides grants to states that enact pool and spa safety legislation that meets certain requirements set out by CPSC. The model language released March 3 spells out those baseline conditions.
Putting to rest one of the most contentious issues, the law does not require a safety vacuum release system or other such device on pools with multiple drains, unblockable drains or drainless systems.
Specifically, the language states that all vessels, new or existing, must have some kind of entrapment protection, whether it be multiple or unblockable drains, a drainless system or a device such as an SVRS. However, a year after enactment of a state law, all new pools and spas must have multiple drains, unblockable drains or no drains at all. In addition, all drains will need to have VGB-approved covers.
This doesn’t preclude a state from requiring secondary devices. Any state can pass more stringent language, as long as it is consistent with two CPSC publications regarding pool and spa safety: Safety Barrier Guidelines for Home Pools and Guidelines for Entrapment Hazards: Making Pools and Spas Safer.
The model legislation also presents barrier requirements that are similar to many existing laws. It applies to any outdoor residential vessel intended for swimming or recreational usage, including any above ground and inflatable pool deeper than 24 inches.
Fencing at least 48 inches above grade shall “effectively provide protection against potential drowning or near-drowning of young children by preventing them from gaining unsupervised and unfettered access.”
In addition to the height, CPSC outlined other detailed specifications for compliance. Removable mesh fencing is allowed if it meets ASTM F2286-05. For an aboveground or onground pool, the vessel itself can serve as the barrier if it stands at least 48 inches above grade. If not, fencing can be added to the top of the pool, provided it meets certain criteria.
If the house serves as part of the barrier, it must be backed up with an audible alarm or power safety cover, both of which must meet certain specifications.
Portable hot tubs may have ASTM-compliant lockable manual safety covers in lieu of fences.
Additionally, CPSC finalized its definition of an unblockable drain. This holds particular importance for some because an unblockable drain can stand alone and doesn’t need a backup device.
To fit this category, a drain must be large enough so that its open area is not blocked by the 18-by-23-inch element used in testing. Furthermore, flow around the blocking element must fall within a given value. All covers must meet the ASME/ANSI A112.19.8 standard.
Some controversy arose over a related decision — to define a drain as unblockable if it has an adequately sized cover, even if the sump is smaller. CPSC Chairwoman Inez Tenenbaum dissented. “The use of an unblockable drain cover by itself does not address the entrapment risks posed by a missing or broken drain cover. …” she said in a statement.
However, others saw it as adequate. “If a cover renders a pool or spa’s main drain unblockable, I can see no safety reason for interpreting the words ‘main drain’ narrowly,” Commissioner Robert Adler said.
Finally, CPSC clarified a vague term used to define a public pool. In part, VGB defines a public pool or spa as one at “a hotel or other public accommodations facility.” Because of confusion, the agency sought to define the latter term. Only pools at single-family residences that are rented to others will be excluded from VGB’s public pool and spa requirements.
What does this mean for you?
Here’s the upshot of this latest VGB development:
Does this law apply to all residential pools?
Probably not. The language is designed for a grant program, which awards funds to states that enact approved pool and spa safety laws.
Only states passing such legislation will be affected.
What does this mean for existing pools and spas?
In participating states, all drains must be capped with VGB-approved covers.
All pools and spas must have some kind
of entrapment protection. This can include multiple drains, unblockable drains, a drainless system, or a backup device such as an SVRS. So single-drain pools will need retrofitting.
What does this mean for new installs?
In addition to the approved drain covers, all new pools and spas must be built with multiple drains, unblockable drains or no drains at all. Backup devices are optional, unless the state passes a more stringent law.
Will these laws require isolation fencing?
No. A barrier is required, but the home can act as one of the four sides, as long as
specified devices are in place. The fencing requirements do not apply to portable hot tubs, as long as they have lockable manual safety covers.
Can my state pass a stricter law?
Yes, as long as it doesn’t conflict with VGB and two specified CPSC publications.
Is my state trying to receive a grant?
CPSC says only Florida is ready to apply. Other states have reportedly expressed interest, but the CPSC won’t specify which. Many have speculated California may participate. — R.R.
Should I buy a Pool or a Boat
Thursday, February 25th, 2010
I am going to make a comparison between 2 major purchases that I have personally made over the past few years. One being a fiberglass pool project in which I invested 50,000 into and the other being a 24 ft fiberglass boat which cost’s 50,000. Keep in mind I live in the northeast where our boating season is cut way short along with our swim season as well. The normal boating season runs from say May 1 through Oct 1 which represents the usual pool season as well, thus will allow for a proper comparison between both investments. Let me start off by saying that I am in no way saying don’t buy a boat. My wife would kill me. Boating is very enjoyable, it’s a time to just get away enjoy what life has to offer with people you care about. It’s a time to enjoy family, friends, relatives, water sports, and Nature itself. Boating has added much enjoyment to my life as a whole but the true question is how does this investment stand up to the investment of a fiberglass pool project. The answer is that it does not even come close to that of a fiberglass pool project. The first segment of this comparison I will break down the associated maintenance costs associated with owning a boat. The second segment I will break down and illustrate what cost’s are associated with owning a Fiberglass Pool . Keep in mind both the Fiberglass Pool project and boat are 50,000. Before I get started comparing apples to apples remember that a fiberglass Pool holds a 25 year warranty and a boat’s normal warranty is about 1-2 years. So right off the bat you invest the same amount of money for the boat and the pool but walk away from the deal with 23 more years of warranty on the pool. That’s just the beginning. You know the saying “what are the two best things about owning a boat” , yup you guessed right the day you buy it and the day you sell it.
What Does is Cost me to maintain that 50,000 boat a year?
1. Dry Stack Fee. Each year I pay to have the boat be kept in a Dry Stack rack. Keeping the boat in Dry stack allows for the boat only to be in the water when i’m using it. All I have to do is hit the button and the attendant fork lifts my boat into the water. The cost of Dry Stack is 2,500 per year. The cost of most regular slips is 2,000 per year. So I will take the lower number shit’s and giggles.
2. Tipping. Let’s assume I use my boat every weekend on Saturday for 5 months. That’s 20 visits to the boat yard. I usually Tip the Fork Lift operator 10.00 for lifting my boat into the water. That’s a total cost of 200.00 for putting the boat into the river. It would definitely be worth it’s weight in gold if it were being dropped into Caribbean blue water’s.
3. Fuel Cost’s. For some reason the cost of fuel at the boat dock is much higher than on the street. The fact of the matter is you have to pay it unless you want to carry fourteen five gallon tanks in your pick up to save 20 bucks on Fuel. My total cost of fuel to run my family get a way vehicle is approximately 35.00 per day which is around 700.00 per season.
4. Boat Maintenance. Since I do not go over 100 hours on my boat every season my boat only needs Service once a year I hope. It’s still very new so I will get back to you when the boat becomes older and more of a headache. Oil changes and winterization is a much harder task than emptying the oil in a car. The oil has to be pumped out with a special pump therefore putting me in the hands of the boat yards mechanic. The cost of Service is 400 per season. I am as I said in recent posts a very visual person. I’m a Capricorn therefore need order in my life. Things have to be clean, organized and in place for my mind to function properly. With that said brings me to the cleaning of the boat. I have little or no time for this therefore requiring me to have the boat detailed once a month to preserve my so called investment. The detailing runs 200.00 a month for five month’s. There’s another 1,000 in maintenance cost associated in owning a boat.
5. Insurance Cost’s Typical boat insurance ranges from 400 to 700 per year. I will take 550.00 to demonstrate. Oh don’t let me forget to mention the service called Sea Tow. If for any reason you break down in the middle of the river and need help you call them to come save you. The cost of this service for the season is 200.00
What does it cost me to Maintain that 50,000 dollar Fiberglass Pool Project a year?
Let me First point out that a fiberglass pool requires no acid baths, no re-plastering, no yearly pool fill, no tile replacement and most importantly requires very little maintenance. 99 percent of all of our pool projects we utilize a Salt water Generator to make Chlorine. I will get into the benefits of Salt water Generators in later blog posts. Fiberglass pools are impervious to Algae growth therefor require little chemicals thus requires shorter filter cycles. We now use the new SVRS pump which provides Anti entrapment features along with energy savings along the way. I’ll save that for a later blog post as well. The truth of the matter the normal opening and closing of a pool cost 300 for openings and 300 for closings. The average cost for chemicals or should I say a bag of Salt a year and some occasional Shock will run our customers around 100.00 a season. The cost of electric to run your pool with an energy saving pump will cost around 500.00 per season. There you have it…… A fiberglass pool that cost’s about 1,200 per season. Now let’s compare the overall investment between a boat and a Fiberglass Pool.
The Boat runs me around around 5,050.00 per season to keep it it in the water.
The Pool runs me around 1,200.00 per season in maintenance costs.
Let’s compare the pool and boat now for 20 years of pleasure.
The boat will wind up costing me over 100,000 to maintain for 20 years.
The fiberglass Pool will wind up costing me 24,000 to maintain for 20 years.
With all that said i am sure you can now understand the benefits to owning a fiberglass pool. At the end of the 20 years i now have a pool with 5 years left on the warranty. The boat’s warranty has been long gone say about 18 years ago. The boat probably has been either sold 5 times over at a huge loss or is eating at your wallet so bad that it’s hibernating in dry stack still or on concrete blocks in your front yard. There are many advantages of adding a swimming pool to your home. A swimming pool increases your home’s value. As the price of your home increases so does the pool project that’s associated with your home. The beauty of owning a pool is that you get to use it whenever you want. You want to take a dip early in the morning or after a hard day of work the pool is just steps away. Go ahead; jump in, relax and enjoy an experience that will change your life forever. Owning a fiberglass pool has many advantages. Hopefully I helped create a perceived value that fiberglass pools by far have and will always have the best dollar to dollar value in home improvements and leisure purchases. I hoped you enjoyed my comparison and come back soon for some really informative blog posts.
Installing Fiberglass Pools in Sand or Gravel
Wednesday, February 24th, 2010
The purpose of this post is to point out the benefits of using 3/8 clean gravel stone back fill for a fiberglass pool installation. Let me point out that not every situation calls for gravel back fill, however in the Northeast climates Stone is the material of choice. I see a lot of fiberglass pool installers try to use the same dirt/clay that comes out of the hole. Of course this is the cheapest and least expensive option for the installer, but could potentially hinder the overall performance of the project. Customers be wary of pool companies that sub out the installation, decking and other pool related services to subs. I see it all the time they try to chince out on the purchase of approved materials to back fill a fiberglass pool project in order to save money. This will surely prove to be a costly mistake for both the pool dealer and the homeowner. I will list the three most common and accepted methods of back filling a fiberglass pool along with the benefits of each. Keep in mind if we are digging 100 percent beach sand without any clay mixed in it we are going to use it. The reason we use 3/8 clean gravel on 95 percent of all our installations is due to most holes we dig have a clay bottom. We install sump systems on every fiberglass pool project we perform. A sump system is used primarily to evacuate water from below the pool if a repair is ever needed. Without a sump in place a repair on the bottom of a fiberglass pool with water underneath would be close to impossible. On our larger pools we usually use about 80 tons of gravel for under our pool, backfill material and concrete decking. We have found that by using gravel there is little to no settling under our pools. We use a plate tamper to flatten and create a hard service under the pool. We have also found that stone provides for a much cleaner job overall. Using Sand as a back fill material requires the flooding of water under and around the pool during installation. This never made any sense to us. We are trying to keep water away from the pool shell at all times. Artistic Pools has installed over 300 Fiberglass pool projects in stone without any problems. The most expensive material to use to back fill a fiberglass pool is the process of using flowable fill. Flowable fill is the mixture of water, Sand, Cement and Fly ash. Basically you are installing a fiberglass pool in a concrete shell at this point. The benefit is that the product once cured is 99.9 percent compacted yet still can excavate it out if needed. The soupy mix is only about 300 psi when installed. This method is rarely used due to the high cost associated with the product. The down fall for this product is that Multiple concrete trucks are needed on site, a pump truck is needed to pump the slurry and most importantly the mess created makes me ill. I am a visual person by nature and as you know this causes people like me not to sleep well at night. Most installs have limited space for all our equipment therefore posing a huge challenge to make room for additional concrete trucks, pump trucks ect ect.
Price comparison for materials used in the Northeast.
Sand (Clean) usually 10.00 per ton (800.00) for a large pool
Gravel (clean) usually 20.00 per ton (1600.00) for a large pool
Flowable fill: 80.00 per yard average (4100.00) for a large pool plus pump truck
I hope you enjoyed our perspective on back filling a fiberglass pool. Other article’s you might find interesting on this topic can be found at www.riverpoolsandspas.com Marcus sheridan